Listening was probably a great contribution. If you would have been able to provide any contrary thoughts, would it have softened any hearts? Would it have caused any changed opinions?
Wilderness. Is it within or without? Whatever it means!
I agree. Aside from the political issue, simply relaxed agenda-less listening made me able to appreciate them as they were, not as examples of Red Necks, for instance.
Your combinations of these things: conservative/MAGA and liberal USians views of each other, their views on policy-related topics, and modern human pleasure in seeing "charismatic animals" seem to me linked by our current USian floundering between stereotypical fictions and vivid living beings.
If you had told those men "I agree," I suspect that they would have assumed that your politics were theirs. But if they had known that your politics were not theirs, they might well not have heard you, because of the fictional version of liberals current in MAGA world. While from your side, you were grateful to hear grounds for possible real conversation despite the dismissive liberal stereotypes about MAGAs.
Within the example you gave, the hope you found was in the man who recognized the existence of immigrants who actually exist, decent people crossing the border to seek work, join and support community, and not fictional insect-like swarming immigrant bogypersons.
And as for many animals, we have distanced ourselves from so many, and seldom think about them, or think of them in Yogi Bear terms-- but there they are! Living, and going about their business with awesome self-possession. (For some reason we find it harder to rejoice the living presence of ants and squirrels, preferring to view them purely instrumentally, categorically stereotyping them.)
I am so sorry you were not able to fully enjoy Yellowstone. We are going there later this summer, and I love the water stations in all the lodges. We carry a gallon jug and thermos wherever we go, and it is lovely. We wondered if we were abusing the "free water" by bringing gallon jugs, and they assured us they were delighted to have us use their watering stations as much as we like. Your question about loving to see wild animals in the wild is a good one. I don't have an answer to it, but I am reminded of Carson’s observation in Silent Spring, “One way to open your eyes is to ask yourself, ‘What if I had never seen this before? What if I knew I would never see it again?’ I put a sign with that quote in my little garden to remind me to keep paying attention and marvel at the complexity of the planet. I don't need the reminder when I see a mama moose and her baby, or a coyote in a field. I know in my bones that I haven't seen it before and that I might never see it again. No reminder sign necessary! Why does it feel so much better to see them in the wild? I am not sure, but it is a completely different visceral reaction than seeing them anywhere else.
Was there ever wilderness, once the land became habitable after the Ice Age? Estimates of the population of what is now Canada, the US, and Mexico before European contact vary widely, but the continent was inhabited and people moved around on it, using and managing its resources in various ways. It has been suggested that the concept of "wilderness" as pristine, uninhabited wild spaces is a European construct. Be that as it may, climate change is making any project of conservation or preservation more complex than we might hope.
Listening was probably a great contribution. If you would have been able to provide any contrary thoughts, would it have softened any hearts? Would it have caused any changed opinions?
Wilderness. Is it within or without? Whatever it means!
Michael McAuliffe
I agree. Aside from the political issue, simply relaxed agenda-less listening made me able to appreciate them as they were, not as examples of Red Necks, for instance.
Wilderness will be fun to explore,
Your combinations of these things: conservative/MAGA and liberal USians views of each other, their views on policy-related topics, and modern human pleasure in seeing "charismatic animals" seem to me linked by our current USian floundering between stereotypical fictions and vivid living beings.
If you had told those men "I agree," I suspect that they would have assumed that your politics were theirs. But if they had known that your politics were not theirs, they might well not have heard you, because of the fictional version of liberals current in MAGA world. While from your side, you were grateful to hear grounds for possible real conversation despite the dismissive liberal stereotypes about MAGAs.
Within the example you gave, the hope you found was in the man who recognized the existence of immigrants who actually exist, decent people crossing the border to seek work, join and support community, and not fictional insect-like swarming immigrant bogypersons.
And as for many animals, we have distanced ourselves from so many, and seldom think about them, or think of them in Yogi Bear terms-- but there they are! Living, and going about their business with awesome self-possession. (For some reason we find it harder to rejoice the living presence of ants and squirrels, preferring to view them purely instrumentally, categorically stereotyping them.)
I am so sorry you were not able to fully enjoy Yellowstone. We are going there later this summer, and I love the water stations in all the lodges. We carry a gallon jug and thermos wherever we go, and it is lovely. We wondered if we were abusing the "free water" by bringing gallon jugs, and they assured us they were delighted to have us use their watering stations as much as we like. Your question about loving to see wild animals in the wild is a good one. I don't have an answer to it, but I am reminded of Carson’s observation in Silent Spring, “One way to open your eyes is to ask yourself, ‘What if I had never seen this before? What if I knew I would never see it again?’ I put a sign with that quote in my little garden to remind me to keep paying attention and marvel at the complexity of the planet. I don't need the reminder when I see a mama moose and her baby, or a coyote in a field. I know in my bones that I haven't seen it before and that I might never see it again. No reminder sign necessary! Why does it feel so much better to see them in the wild? I am not sure, but it is a completely different visceral reaction than seeing them anywhere else.
Have a wonderful time. That two of you are so well prepared to appreciate what you see.,
The value of just listening. Being voiceless, voluntarily or involuntarily, is not necessarily always a bad thing.
I agree. This is an important point.
Was there ever wilderness, once the land became habitable after the Ice Age? Estimates of the population of what is now Canada, the US, and Mexico before European contact vary widely, but the continent was inhabited and people moved around on it, using and managing its resources in various ways. It has been suggested that the concept of "wilderness" as pristine, uninhabited wild spaces is a European construct. Be that as it may, climate change is making any project of conservation or preservation more complex than we might hope.
All of which makes the issue(s) more interesting.